Butch/femme identity: why the labels/boxes?

[Caz Prescott]

Recently I had a Valentine, but then she kicked me to the curb. The reason? I don't identify as butch or femme. We both like femme aggressives & girly girls, but I felt kinda dejected because I have this free flowing identity. I get tired of black lesbians (maybe latinas too) only wanting to go out with someone based on how they dress & act (one has to be the lady, the other the gentleman).

My question to the group is: Do you feel it necessary to put a label on how you present yourself? Or is it just bullshit?

[Lunakiss]

I'm not into labels. I'm into the womyn. I simply do not like stereotypical male and female mind gender roles. It degrades womyn to the point of her human being as that to a lesser kind. Seriously, it does degrade womyn as objects. We are souls. If you love womyn, you don't degrade her as such.

[Mlle d. Sade]

That's true,

[blaqvenus]

I call it Internalized homophobia. Some folks don't even know they have internalized gender roles even if they are queer. They live in a heterosexual mind set. Society teaches us from the day we are born how to act, even what colors to wear based on gender roles. It seems like some folks strive for the opposite of what queerness is. Be you. You'll attract the right person.

[DanielaInfinity]

I may have posted on here already but oh well, gonna do it again ;)

I struggled earlier on with how I thought I should see or "present" myself but now I just do me. It's definitely (in my experience) not necessary to put a label on yourself. In fact, it can complicate things or shut doors.

I no longer date people who only date a "certain" kind of person and aren't flexible with that. I have in the past and didn't enjoy it.
They wanted me to be something very rigid and false. I know it can be difficult if the place that you live only seems to inhabit people who are very into labels, but that sometimes means you should move somewhere else :) or just stay strong and continue to be you.

The best thing about just being free and not living beneath a label is that you tend to attract those kinds of people to you as well.

[bougie bohemian]

I'm with Angelica...

I don't do labels...One day I may feel super feminine and the next I may want to butch it up...It's all in my mood. I never understood the whole butch/femme thing, but it could be because I'm not a lesbian per-se.

What does get on my nerves is how shallow other bi women can be...Way too many of them can't be bothered with you if you're not super hot or looking like a model. It's like way too many of them try to fit into the "hot bi babe" box and it's annoying as hell.

Angelica Johnson said:

So funny, I had the same conversation with a group of black lesbian and bisexual women about this topic. Because we live in a heterosexist society, I think that same gender loving folk feel the need to assimilate to their environments to be accepted. Therefore, we conform to gender norms of stereotypical male or female attributes. To go against the norm is to become more marginalized. It is important that we challenge what is considered the "norm" so that people can live wholesome lifestyles. Also, I feel that the label of aggressive butch or aggressive femme sort of encourages a culture of violence and dominance. Why perpetuate white supremacist patriarchal colonial practices, which are oppressive to us? I sympathize though with individuals who internalize sexism and heterosexism because it is ingrained in so much of what we see and experience.

[Lunakiss]

Yeah like the Megan Fox thing or the chick from al girl group who got kicked out and refuse to label herself or whatever or Tila Tequila aka former bi not lez.

bougie bohemian said:

I'm with Angelica...

I don't do labels...One day I may feel super feminine and the next I may want to butch it up...It's all in my mood. I never understood the whole butch/femme thing, but it could be because I'm not a lesbian per-se.

What does get on my nerves is how shallow other bi women can be...Way too many of them can't be bothered with you if you're not super hot or looking like a model. It's like way too many of them try to fit into the "hot bi babe" box and it's annoying as hell.

Angelica Johnson said:

So funny, I had the same conversation with a group of black lesbian and bisexual women about this topic. Because we live in a heterosexist society, I think that same gender loving folk feel the need to assimilate to their environments to be accepted. Therefore, we conform to gender norms of stereotypical male or female attributes. To go against the norm is to become more marginalized. It is important that we challenge what is considered the "norm" so that people can live wholesome lifestyles. Also, I feel that the label of aggressive butch or aggressive femme sort of encourages a culture of violence and dominance. Why perpetuate white supremacist patriarchal colonial practices, which are oppressive to us? I sympathize though with individuals who internalize sexism and heterosexism because it is ingrained in so much of what we see and experience.

[Fadiah Sarrah]

no i dont think so. i hate labels...because sometimes i dress girly and on my bum days i dress like a boy and other days i mix n match. ...i see it this way if im attractive to you then it doesnt matter how you dress or how you present yourself

[guitargrrrl76]

I just do me. I know people might see me as a little butchy because I have a mohawk and tattoos on my knuckles/hands and curse like a sailor. But I am totally girly inside...for the most part. And I've met a lot of butch women that are not the dominant party in the relationship. i've learned just to like someone for who they are and not the label they should be.

[bougie bohemian]

Tia's not bi anymore? (I kind of had a hard time believing she really was in the first place cos she's such an attention whore but still LOL)

Lunakiss said:

Yeah like the Megan Fox thing or the chick from al girl group who got kicked out and refuse to label herself or whatever or Tila Tequila aka former bi not lez.

bougie bohemian said:

I'm with Angelica...

I don't do labels...One day I may feel super feminine and the next I may want to butch it up...It's all in my mood. I never understood the whole butch/femme thing, but it could be because I'm not a lesbian per-se.

What does get on my nerves is how shallow other bi women can be...Way too many of them can't be bothered with you if you're not super hot or looking like a model. It's like way too many of them try to fit into the "hot bi babe" box and it's annoying as hell.

Angelica Johnson said:

So funny, I had the same conversation with a group of black lesbian and bisexual women about this topic. Because we live in a heterosexist society, I think that same gender loving folk feel the need to assimilate to their environments to be accepted. Therefore, we conform to gender norms of stereotypical male or female attributes. To go against the norm is to become more marginalized. It is important that we challenge what is considered the "norm" so that people can live wholesome lifestyles. Also, I feel that the label of aggressive butch or aggressive femme sort of encourages a culture of violence and dominance. Why perpetuate white supremacist patriarchal colonial practices, which are oppressive to us? I sympathize though with individuals who internalize sexism and heterosexism because it is ingrained in so much of what we see and experience.