Butch/femme identity: why the labels/boxes?

[Caz Prescott]

Recently I had a Valentine, but then she kicked me to the curb. The reason? I don't identify as butch or femme. We both like femme aggressives & girly girls, but I felt kinda dejected because I have this free flowing identity. I get tired of black lesbians (maybe latinas too) only wanting to go out with someone based on how they dress & act (one has to be the lady, the other the gentleman).

My question to the group is: Do you feel it necessary to put a label on how you present yourself? Or is it just bullshit?

[Mlle d. Sade]

Not really but dammit I take pride in my femmey ways and the femmey ways of others. I look at other femmes primarily.


I hate the labels. I hate all the butchies walking around trying to make me submit. If I were in to being pigeon holed I'd be with a man.

People need labels if they can't expand their headspace to comprehend someone not identifying as butch or femme, someone not being "one or the other"* it's just general close mindedness.

I once had a guy ask me why do women sleep together if neither has a penis. because he believe the only way a woman can get off is through penetration (which is the biggest lie of the century). It's all lies. Lies!

*See bi bashing for a more comprehensive list of people not understanding people not being "one or the other".

Boxes suck. One of us doesn't have to be "the man" that's the greater society's dirty dirty slime creeping into our subconscious.

PS: That girl sounds not worth hanging around.

[QueerBlackCinema.org]

I think a little bit of both. I personally doesn't label myself however, I do have a preference. I'm kinda like you. I dated this woman who labeled herself as a fem. After we broke up she said I was too fem for her. When I use to date men, I NEVER had to worry about being fem or butch. He as the man and I was the woman - the end. It seems to me, I would attract these fem looking women (accept for a few times) and I guess they would think I am AG then I would change my way of dressing depending on the day I would look more fem. Then later they would say, I am too fem. At one point I use to wear heels all the time. In fact, I only owned one pair of sneakers. Then the foot doctor said I had to stop wearing heels so much. After that, things changed slightly. I just want a beautiful Black Woman is look good on the in and out. I don't want to be in a relationship where I have to play roles. It is a bit hard but I did find someone who let me be me but that's pretty much over now but that's another story. OK, I sound so long winded but I think you understand. Anyways, I have to get back to editing.

Peace,
ab

PS: When I get more time I will upload a picture of me dress up and dressed down so to speak

[Mlle d. Sade]

I like experiments. Scientific studying.

[Ladybug]

I personally don't really think it matters what people label themselves...if your comfortable with whatever label or non label you are then its all love in my book...I date whomever I'm attracted to...fem, butch, stud, ag, non label...its all in the brain for me...

[WAYNESKI]

Labels will never die…they jus make life harder

[lh]

BS completely! I think that deep down it is a way for us as people to want to feel as if we blend in with society to a point! For most it is just what they like. When I came to terms with myself eons ago as a teenager, I bought into this too but as I got older, it was more of "hey you like who you like, so f*** it" but especially as black people and other minority groups where our lifestyles are generally not accepted, that is where the whole label thing come into play.

[Ladybug]

I think it can happen where people can just be a lesbian or just a gay man...but it will be hard to make it that far...we as gay people are the ones that came up with these labels...so I think as a whole wiping the slate clean will take major effort especially with so many people not on the same page about this issue...

[Caz Prescott]

I'm bisexual so I know all about the bi bashing. I'm still frustrating over the labeling thing. I don't want to call myself butch or femme because I don't feel rooted/cemented in either identity. Oh well, maybe there are some freaky androgynous wimmin out there that I can hang with.

Mlle d. Sade said:

Not really but dammit I take pride in my femmey ways and the femmey ways of others. I look at other femmes primarily.


I hate the labels. I hate all the butchies walking around trying to make me submit. If I were in to being pigeon holed I'd be with a man.

People need labels if they can't expand their headspace to comprehend someone not identifying as butch or femme, someone not being "one or the other"* it's just general close mindedness.

I once had a guy ask me why do women sleep together if neither has a penis. because he believe the only way a woman can get off is through penetration (which is the biggest lie of the century). It's all lies. Lies!

*See bi bashing for a more comprehensive list of people not understanding people not being "one or the other".

Boxes suck. One of us doesn't have to be "the man" that's the greater society's dirty dirty slime creeping into our subconscious.

PS: That girl sounds not worth hanging around.

[Boudica]

Nope, not at all. Genderfuck all the way!

If I want to wear a dress all day and then come home and change into something more angular, that's my prerogative. :3 I believe in the soul in motion, two parts of a whole, the balance of energies. Some days a certain energy is in the lead is all, but I am constantly shifting like the tide and that's how I like it.

[Sarah]

why not both be feminine or masculine? i though the LGBT community wouldn't be so worried about the traditional roles that men/women in straight relationships play?

[Satra Sia]

B.S.

My very first Women was into that role playing b.s. and it drove me nuts... with the touch me nots, wear this not that...I'm paying I'm the AG b.s.
I wanted to touch too, dress however I feel, and take her out and pay for dates too...SO that ended quick. To too much for me. I can respect a woman not wanting to be touched in certain places but all the other issh I couldn't deal with.

Makes me wonder: "what are you when you are naked? that's right a woman"...lol

[Angelica Johnson]

So funny, I had the same conversation with a group of black lesbian and bisexual women about this topic. Because we live in a heterosexist society, I think that same gender loving folk feel the need to assimilate to their environments to be accepted. Therefore, we conform to gender norms of stereotypical male or female attributes. To go against the norm is to become more marginalized. It is important that we challenge what is considered the "norm" so that people can live wholesome lifestyles. Also, I feel that the label of aggressive butch or aggressive femme sort of encourages a culture of violence and dominance. Why perpetuate white supremacist patriarchal colonial practices, which are oppressive to us? I sympathize though with individuals who internalize sexism and heterosexism because it is ingrained in so much of what we see and experience.