Sex Positive

[Mlle d. Sade]

Thoughts on sex positive feminism?
Taking back the power?
Sexual prejudices.
What is it?!!

Feeling suffocated? Feel choked? Is everyone around you a prude? Does having a vagina seem more like having an open wound instead of a mysterious gift?

I get it, people seek to take the art out of sex because it takes the power away from the women and turns them into lobotomized slaves. Almost people.

Then you add in the ho-phobia and the demonization of women who dare to enjoy sex outside of a "committed relationship". ..we can only be wives and girlfriends to be good. Anything else is bad- but men fully enjoy it. And then to be a victim. ... a repressed victim.

Here's something interesting I found:
http://www.anniesprinkle.org/html/about/sprinkle_story.html

"In February of 2002, Annie Sprinkle received her Ph. D. in Human Sexuality from the Institute for Advanced Study of Human Sexuality, in San Francisco. She is now a certified sexologist,and the first porn star in history to earn a Ph.D. Her dissertation topic was “Providing Educational Opportunities For Adult Industry Workers”. Sprinkle has been a pivotal player in the sex workers rights movement for years, has worked to help make sex workers happier and healthier and to fight ‘ho-phobia, social stigmas and prejudice. She is currently on the board of the St. James Infirmary in San Francisco, a free full-service health care clinic for sex workers."

” A post-porn modernist and a pro-porn optimist, Sprinkle is, of course, not as naive as she sounds. However, she does seem unconscious about how incredibly radical her vision is. Her feminism is not about victimhood: she completely transcends expectations of what she herself should be and also of what is supposed to be sexy. …Her exuberant honesty reveals cultural repression for the sick and twisted thing it is. To hear her talk wistfully about a sexy amputee lover, or to see her video of unconventional-looking women rolling around in orgasmic ecstasy, is shocking. But shock leads to the realization of one's own sense of prejudice. Annie Sprinkle is such a strong personality that she bestirs in her audience a sense of embarrassment -- not for her, but for the impotent prudery of the dominant culture.”

[Lunakiss]

If Annie Sprinkle was a womyn of African descent or any other person of color she wouldn't receive much attention. We do need sex positive feminism. I feel it has been left out of feminism. The question of taking back power is from whom? Womyn have severally fallen ill to the idealism set forth by patriarchy standards about sex and their bodies. In return, have become infected with the virus of self-sexual hate in which now they are trying to spread it to other womyn. The only cure for this sexual prejudice,which includes discrimination against queer womyn for having romantic and sexual relationships with other womyn, is to make our own medicine, our own anti-sexual self-hate botics . This anti sexual self-hate botics will help return to self-love and joy of one's own body,vagina, weight, breasts,hips,legs, etc.
I've personally do not feel choked b/c I have not succumb to such self-hate disease.

So what do you think?

[LesYpersound]

...not to be wholly unproductive, but i think you're a bit self-righteous there and preaching your superiority like that to other "womyn" isn't helpful.



anyway, regarding sex-positive... when someone made the argument that the only time feminism will truly reach where it's going is when whores, sluts, and bitches are no longer a-ok targets for violence, silence, and ridicule--intellectually i get that... but i don't think man-whores are ppl i especially want to be around so i don't feel i'm falling into some kind of patriarchal subterfuge when it comes to my personal standards.

for me i treat this shit like addictions to anything--if you absolutely can't control yourself then that's a form of weakness and you're covering up your real problems, and you need to check yourself.

self-control, restraint, and sacrafice aren't bad things imo. ...but for the last two weeks i've been told that i have a problem with perfectionism and having too much faith or too many expectations in other humans and myself. so who knows?

[PuellaExMachina]

Personally, I would love to see the day where sexuality is not so nearly repressed as it is currently. Self-restraint should be practiced, but having self restraint does not mean that you cannot have a sensuous/ deeply sexual nature. I feel sometimes feminism has encouraged women to be the passive partner in their sex life- I've read one too many books on the fall into the same tired traps of assuming that women are not as interested in sex as these oppressive males that we're fighting. This attitude makes things worse, not better, so I applaud this woman for trying to do something about this stereotype.

I do agree with one of the above posters, however, that if the images were shown of non-white women, especially black women, it probably wouldn't have gotten nearly as much attention. However, it is nice to see someone doing something about the repressive/ victimizing culture we've (sorta) inherited.

[CocoaPuss Zine]

oh cool thanks for posting this. i'm definitely a sex positive feminist and have a lot of sex sometimes and i write about it and people get upset. like me wanting to sleep with a bunch of diff guys is some sort of "problem" when everything is totally consensual and i'm usually pretty happy about the whole thing, unless the guy cums too fast.

i think women who like sex and are ok with their bodies and are honest about what they want sexually are sometimes just seen as "sluts" by mainstream society. it's like we can't be sexually liberated when men have been for years and years and years. and then there's the hate from other feminists and the whole debate as to whether porn is really oppressive against women. who gets to decide who the victim is really? i've done porn, you don't have to be a victim.

you can tell people are sexually repressed when you get yelled at for breastfeeding your child in public.

also in $PREAD magazine, they talk about women taking pole dancing classes and paying a lot of money for those classes and it's ok and this empowering thing to do and then you can take that home to "your man" but if you actually make a living at it and are a stripper then you are still a whore and other women hate on you. what's the difference? isn't the woman making money at it empowered for making money and the woman doing it in class losing money and also trying to fit in and feel sexy when she was already sexy to begin with?

good topic.

[Compound Egret]

DJ Random Brotha said:

"they talk about women taking pole dancing classes and paying a lot of money for those classes and it's ok and this empowering thing to do and then you can take that home to "your man" but if you actually make a living at it and are a stripper then you are still a whore and other women hate on you. what's the difference? isn't the woman making money at it empowered for making money and the woman doing it in class losing money and also trying to fit in and feel sexy when she was already sexy to begin with?"

It's a double standard. And who ever says women in the adult entertainment world have no power are bullshitting. Think about it. A women takes her top off and guys give her money by the hundreds. Women are the only ones featured on the cover of majority of pron covers. They even decided who to work with and who they won't. Women RUN that fuckin industry.

Pyschology is the greatest weapon women have...

Threadjack...You have to look at who runs the companies, not the picture on the cover.

[CocoaPuss Zine]

in cases where women are in charge of porn and not just actresses in it, it is TOTALLY different.

http://www.candidaroyalle.com/afro/afro.html

DJ Random Brotha said:

But without the women, those companies would go belly up....

But what I fail to understand is (maybe because I'm a young man, not a woman) would shit be any different if women took over the Adult Entertainment industry?

[CocoaPuss Zine]

that's the first link that came into my head. also the producer of the film, candida royalle is a porn star/producer, so whether it's porn or not, she financed the movie. i think that just proves the point. women like more of a story line and need more detail (sometimes), and are more supportive of other women. a black woman (i forget her name) had the idea for the movie and candida believed in her and worked with her to make it happen. it's very refreshing to see a woman's idea in a movie.

DJ Random Brotha said:

^ I wouldn't even consider that porn....more like an art skin flick

[Mlle d. Sade]

Candida Royalle happens to be a friend of Dr. Sprinkle, lol.

DJ Random Brotha said:

I'm not saying it's bad or any thing...it's just.. I consider that more of an art film than a "porno".

But porn was originally designed to be "art". If there's nothing artful or beautiful about your sex you're getting jipped. i trhink your reaction to female oriented porn as an "art flick" and something unsexy perfectly illustrates the problem with modern mainstream porn. A lot of women don't like the mechanical aspect of it that is just libido bleach for women who haven't assimilated.

There's other kinds of women run porn out there and female oriented porn: Sappho's girls. *Shine Louise Houston's films- which I posted a thread about in the Freaks section is sweaty and hardcore* and Abby Winters.

[Mlle d. Sade]

DJ Random Brotha said:

"they talk about women taking pole dancing classes and paying a lot of money for those classes and it's ok and this empowering thing to do and then you can take that home to "your man" but if you actually make a living at it and are a stripper then you are still a whore and other women hate on you. what's the difference? isn't the woman making money at it empowered for making money and the woman doing it in class losing money and also trying to fit in and feel sexy when she was already sexy to begin with?"
It's a double standard. And who ever says women in the adult entertainment world have no power are bullshitting. Think about it. A women takes her top off and guys give her money by the hundreds. Women are the only ones featured on the cover of majority of pron covers. They even decided who to work with and who they won't. Women RUN that fuckin industry.
Pyschology is the greatest weapon women have...

That's not actually "power". We all know that we are born money makers but that is not the same as power. The problem is the power is taken from us via how we are used to make money and our lack of control over how we are used.

I can go out right now and put myself in a porn and get some money- does that automatically mean I have power? If I go out there and do the things the "director" wants me to do and how he wants me to do it- which in mainstream porn is as a passive meat puppet to be fucked, not to be a part of the of fucking as a person- just as a half shell of whatever they want a female body to be. Because that's what het men focus on when they watch porn- the female body getting fucked. Being a passive vessel is not the same as power.
True power is owning the company, reaping the profits and presenting what you want- not being used as the puppet to accomplish the ends.

If the women stopped doing it the industry would not dry up because more mindless meat puppets would pop up in their place eager to be excepted by the men who run this show. A lot of women want sex worker safety laws but even more do not. Womens' voices mean nothing because we always get drowned out. Either it's because what we want is considered non-porn to most men out there or because so many other women can't really think for themselves and love it.

[Mlle d. Sade]

A lot of womyn are definitely prone to adopting male oppressive standards of sex. "sex=bad, women who like sex are whores and deserve abuse, etc.," it's very counterproductive and such woman hate is the reason why these womyn are so hard to take seriously. The sex issue is a huge component of woman on woman hate.

Anti-sexual self hate biotics? I like that term, what kind of medicine do you have in mind? Education that promotes freedom?

Lunakiss said:

If Annie Sprinkle was a womyn of African descent or any other person of color she wouldn't receive much attention. We do need sex positive feminism. I feel it has been left out of feminism. The question of taking back power is from whom? Womyn have severally fallen ill to the idealism set forth by patriarchy standards about sex and their bodies. In return, have become infected with the virus of self-sexual hate in which now they are trying to spread it to other womyn. The only cure for this sexual prejudice,which includes discrimination against queer womyn for having romantic and sexual relationships with other womyn, is to make our own medicine, our own anti-sexual self-hate botics . This anti sexual self-hate botics will help return to self-love and joy of one's own body,vagina, weight, breasts,hips,legs, etc.
I've personally do not feel choked b/c I have not succumb to such self-hate disease.

So what do you think?

Are you talking about sex addiction and/or general whoring around for the sheer hell of it? If it's an addiction a person should get help because it's psychological as you said. I'm into restraint too (it's the only way to extract proper compensation from men nowadays) but sometimes I just want to party or other such nonsense and I think other women should be able to have a good time without getting stoned or shunned. Of course, that is a pipe dream.

Whoring for the hell of it, runnin' wild and maybe bedding an entire football team or male chorus. ....a girl can dream, can't she?

Man-whores aren't people to you? lol, one day I'd like to buy I night with a professional (as opposed to the assholes with 7 kids by 8 women which they wear as a badge of honor. those guys are assholes. wear a condom!) man-whore of my choosing= paradise. I'm totally okay with sex trade.

I'm a huge perfectionist and I have really high expectations. Too bad the world is a huge disappointment.

LesYpersound said:

...not to be wholly unproductive, but i think you're a bit self-righteous there and preaching your superiority like that to other "womyn" isn't helpful.



anyway, regarding sex-positive... when someone made the argument that the only time feminism will truly reach where it's going is when whores, sluts, and bitches are no longer a-ok targets for violence, silence, and ridicule--intellectually i get that... but i don't think man-whores are ppl i especially want to be around so i don't feel i'm falling into some kind of patriarchal subterfuge when it comes to my personal standards.

for me i treat this shit like addictions to anything--if you absolutely can't control yourself then that's a form of weakness and you're covering up your real problems, and you need to check yourself.

self-control, restraint, and sacrafice aren't bad things imo. ...but for the last two weeks i've been told that i have a problem with perfectionism and having too much faith or too many expectations in other humans and myself. so who knows?

[Mlle d. Sade]

"You don't have to be a victim" well said. In the future I plan to do more sex work and everyone just thinks sex workers are a bunch of brain dead whores w/o hopes and dreams and aspirations and we're scum that deserve whatever we get.

Good point about the pole dancing. It's exactly what tried to point out in my original, sleep deprived (because of fantastic sex- which is why I was looking up Annie Sprinkle) post- it's only okay for women to be sexual if they take it home to "their man". Being a stripper is bad and wrong. It's that "safety and protection" paradox that affects women. We can only be safe and protected if we do it the way the greater male society says we should. Anything else is subject to sexual violence.

I thank the stars I have the mother I do because a couple of weeks ago she suggested I audition for a strip tease show because I'm comfortable and have good balance (?) it was so awesome it caught me off guard.

The breastfeeding in public debate is soooooo aggravating to me: if we can have Hooters and wet t-shirt contests a woman can breast feed in public. It shouldn't be a big deal.

CocoaPuss Zine said:

oh cool thanks for posting this. i'm definitely a sex positive feminist and have a lot of sex sometimes and i write about it and people get upset. like me wanting to sleep with a bunch of diff guys is some sort of "problem" when everything is totally consensual and i'm usually pretty happy about the whole thing, unless the guy cums too fast.

i think women who like sex and are ok with their bodies and are honest about what they want sexually are sometimes just seen as "sluts" by mainstream society. it's like we can't be sexually liberated when men have been for years and years and years. and then there's the hate from other feminists and the whole debate as to whether porn is really oppressive against women. who gets to decide who the victim is really? i've done porn, you don't have to be a victim.

you can tell people are sexually repressed when you get yelled at for breastfeeding your child in public.

also in $PREAD magazine, they talk about women taking pole dancing classes and paying a lot of money for those classes and it's ok and this empowering thing to do and then you can take that home to "your man" but if you actually make a living at it and are a stripper then you are still a whore and other women hate on you. what's the difference? isn't the woman making money at it empowered for making money and the woman doing it in class losing money and also trying to fit in and feel sexy when she was already sexy to begin with?

good topic.

Compound Egret said:

DJ Random Brotha said:

"they talk about women taking pole dancing classes and paying a lot of money for those classes and it's ok and this empowering thing to do and then you can take that home to "your man" but if you actually make a living at it and are a stripper then you are still a whore and other women hate on you. what's the difference? isn't the woman making money at it empowered for making money and the woman doing it in class losing money and also trying to fit in and feel sexy when she was already sexy to begin with?"

It's a double standard. And who ever says women in the adult entertainment world have no power are bullshitting. Think about it. A women takes her top off and guys give her money by the hundreds. Women are the only ones featured on the cover of majority of pron covers. They even decided who to work with and who they won't. Women RUN that fuckin industry.

Pyschology is the greatest weapon women have...

Threadjack...You have to look at who runs the companies, not the picture on the cover.

And more often times than not the subtext of the women in the movies. Which is why I don't really care for Sappho's girls- if I want great lez porn I'll consult the pink and white company. The women who are disgusted by porn are only disgusted because all they've seen is the mainstream stuff and the "feel" in those movies is often so gross.

[Mlle d. Sade]

No, no, no- this isn't about pwning newbs. This is about thinking deeply about the subject. And perhaps a subject you haven't experienced. If you can't take the info thrown at you from a chick who is not pussyfooting around about then maybe......
Please come back.

(Maybe you'll learn about the world of porn outside of mainstream porn that fetishizes anything not cookie cutter boring girls who get used. ^__^)

DJ Random Brotha said:

Sorry for asking.

I need to fix me a sammich...