ProWres thread.

[Mlle d. Sade]

Starting a new one since the other is so far buried back there.

In recent news not WWE= Playboy Buddy Rose was found dead earlier this week, he was still an active wrestler and trainer. It's really sad and surreal to sit back and watch AWA on ESPN classic and realize a good half of the roster is dead.

Elix Skipper lost a child earlier this week when his 21 year old son was gunned down. That was just a shock for many reasons.

Kurt Angle's agent did a report to the Miami Herald or something about Angle's rehab and WWE leaving issues. Anyone know more about this? I couldn't make sense of the article because it seems like someone wants to come clean but there's still so much muck.

ROH's on HDNet Fights! now.

CHIKARA had a successful fan conclave.

SHIMMER is taping 4 volumes this weeked (now) and continues to steam roll forward getting hard working women a place in the indy wrestling landscape.

Larry Sweeney is AWOL after quitting ROH. I'm personally worried about him because I know how it gets.

I re-joined Wrestlecrap.

Speaking of Wrestlecrap WWE's new show Superstars debuted.

That's it. Oh yeah, some Japan stuff that is confusing. Also some Mexican stuff.

[Mlle d. Sade]

Jim Cornette also have an excellent article up that is sadly still an accurate description of the modern day televised wasteland.

http://www.jimcornette.com/Commentary.html

[Mlle d. Sade]

Madagascar wrestling?

[Ghettopunkrocker]

Jim makes a strong argument. The trouble is finding a compromise. I'm a long time fan and pro wrestling is in my blood.

* I was raised on WWF (Now WWE) in fact, Wrestlemania's debuted in my birth year.
* Stephanie McMahon-Helmsley share a birthday.
* My aunt on my dad's side went to college with Mike "Virgil" Jones.

One of the biggest issues in TNA and WWE is the booking and "writers" respectively. Regarding WWE, don't get me wrong, I don't mind crass, bawdy entertainment. But, if you're going to be crude, you have to do it right. I still stand by my theory of the WWE Creative Team getting jacked up on cough syrup and watching "E! Television" and taking notes for possible angles and story lines. If it was people like us writing, that understood the balance between fandom, creativity and profit, things could get a lot better. I mean, there were tons of things they could've ran with! I mean, Glen Jacobs supported Ron Paul. shit, during the election why not give him a politically charged gimmick? Think of it, "McKane, the big red state machine!"

Regarding promos and commentary, all the commentators nowadays are fed the lines and if they go off script they get an ear full of Vince. Paul Heyman and Mick Foley are two good examples. Back in the day, they really had to improvise and really connect with the fans. Now, not as much...

New Jack more or less said it, WWE gets guys from the indie circut, sticks them with a stupid gimmick and more or less destroys there career and cred or doesn't give them the push they need and/or deserve.

TNA has potential but due to Jarrett's southern/dated booking style(don't hold me to it, but last time I checked Jeff was booking), it's going to more or less be stagnant but still hold a following. I mean, Unlike WWE, the women of TNA can actually wrestle. I rarely mark out for anyone, but I mark out for Awesome Kong though. Too bad they gave her this Goldberg/Chyna gimmick. Lethal Consequences is one of my fave tag team stables and Beer Money...well they have a cool name.

But bottom line, until booking gets there shit together, I'm not expecting anything more than a few interesting matches. Oh yeah, what do you think of this New Jack/CB Cane thing?

[Mlle d. Sade]

Ghettopunkrocker said:

Jim makes a strong argument. The trouble is finding a compromise. I'm a long time fan and pro wrestling is in my blood.

* I was raised on WWF (Now WWE) in fact, Wrestlemania's debuted in my birth year.
* Stephanie McMahon-Helmsley share a birthday.
* My aunt on my dad's side went to college with Mike "Virgil" Jones.

One of the biggest issues in TNA and WWE is the booking and "writers" respectively. Regarding WWE, don't get me wrong, I don't mind crass, bawdy entertainment. But, if you're going to be crude, you have to do it right. I still stand by my theory of the WWE Creative Team getting jacked up on cough syrup and watching "E! Television" and taking notes for possible angles and story lines. If it was people like us writing, that understood the balance between fandom, creativity and profit, things could get a lot better. I mean, there were tons of things they could've ran with! I mean, Glen Jacobs supported Ron Paul. shit, during the election why not give him a politically charged gimmick? Think of it, "McKane, the big red state machine!"

Regarding promos and commentary, all the commentators nowadays are fed the lines and if they go off script they get an ear full of Vince. Paul Heyman and Mick Foley are two good examples. Back in the day, they really had to improvise and really connect with the fans. Now, not as much...

New Jack more or less said it, WWE gets guys from the indie circut, sticks them with a stupid gimmick and more or less destroys there career and cred or doesn't give them the push they need and/or deserve.

TNA has potential but due to Jarrett's southern/dated booking style(don't hold me to it, but last time I checked Jeff was booking), it's going to more or less be stagnant but still hold a following. I mean, Unlike WWE, the women of TNA can actually wrestle. I rarely mark out for anyone, but I mark out for Awesome Kong though. Too bad they gave her this Goldberg/Chyna gimmick. Lethal Consequences is one of my fave tag team stables and Beer Money...well they have a cool name.

But bottom line, until booking gets there shit together, I'm not expecting anything more than a few interesting matches. Oh yeah, what do you think of this New Jack/CB Cane thing?

What new Jack thing? I don't really care for New Jack.

I grew up WCW/NWA- never watched WWE until I HAD to. In terms of wrestling, I'm old school and it's my opinion that the Attitude Era ruined aspects of wrestling. Bill Watt's mid-south did a better incarnation of the Attitude Era in the 70s and 80s. I'm not down with angles and things that are heavily depended on the outside world. I am also not a fan of crass wrestling, it doesn't have to be squeaky clean but at least TRY not to take a shit on all that people have worked for in the ART of pro wrestling.

"I still stand by my theory of the WWE Creative Team getting jacked up on cough syrup and watching "E! Television" and taking notes for possible angles and story lines."

I lol'd, this is quite possibly true. WWE really cranks up the minimal effort.

All in all, I enjoy wrestling that does not insult my intelligence, like WWE does by making "sports entertainment" a quick fix, neutered.

They took Colt Cabana and took the name away from him. I don't know what convinced them to let CM Punk keep much of his CM Punk-ness but I'm glad they did. I'm proud of Punk and expect big things out of him when the time is right.

Some indy guys make it fairly well- Brian Kendrick has gone a lot farther then I thought they'd let him go. He still gets mic time and his promos are not so obviously scripted.

[Mlle d. Sade]

Elaboration on not liking things heavily dependent on the mainstream world, politics etc.,-

Sometimes it can be done correctly, be at the right time and really get the fans into it. Sadly, the last time this worked was in the 80s when Hogan took on Iron Sheik and Slaughter turned. Thanks to the Attitude era and the inter workings of wrestling laid bare this can never happen again.

'm fine with general movements like AOTF, ECW, the general idea of the Attitude Era but when it comes to that "ripped from the headlines" stuff it just looks hackish.

[Ghettopunkrocker]

There's this real life feud with this guy by the name of CB Cane. I dunno, I thought it was kind of entertaining for a minute.
What new Jack thing? I don't really care for New Jack.

I wasn't that big of a fan of WCW growing up. But after really studying the art of pro wrestling. I have a new found respect for it.

I grew up WCW/NWA- never watched WWE until I HAD to. In terms of wrestling, I'm old school and it's my opinion that the Attitude Era ruined aspects of wrestling. Bill Watt's mid-south did a better incarnation of the Attitude Era in the 70s and 80s. I'm not down with angles and things that are heavily depended on the outside world. I am also not a fan of crass wrestling, it doesn't have to be squeaky clean but at least TRY not to take a shit on all that people have worked for in the ART of pro wrestling.

Well, exactly. WWE said it, it's "Sports Entertainment." They have elements of Wrestling but it delves into more. Vince has more or less said WWE's competition is Hollywood.

All in all, I enjoy wrestling that does not insult my intelligence, like WWE does by making "sports entertainment" a quick fix, neutered.

Oh yeah, Colt. They gave dude a hard time since he was in OVW. One of the trainers called him "Kike Cabana" in front of everyone that was training.

They took Colt Cabana and took the name away from him. I don't know what convinced them to let CM Punk keep much of his CM Punk-ness but I'm glad they did. I'm proud of Punk and expect big things out of him when the time is right.

Good point. I'm only going by some shoot tapes that I saw that said they don't have as much leniency as they did before.

Some indy guys make it fairly well- Brian Kendrick has gone a lot farther then I thought they'd let him go. He still gets mic time and his promos are not so obviously scripted.

[Mlle d. Sade]

Colt- yeah, can't believe his brush with antisemitism, that was terrible. He doesn't want to talk about it. Save for a shoot.
That was really fucked up, I still can't believe people still use that word, it's really mind blowing.

Sports Entertainment vs. Hollywood is SO unrealistic. Great, now WWE is sad and deluded.

But antisemitism, for real? I just couldn't believe that shit when I heard about it.

[Ghettopunkrocker]

Yeah, Paul Heyman did a blog about anti-antisemitism in wrestling. Okay, Paul is a known manipulator but in this article here did you notice Paul E. Heyman more or less playing up to black folks? Do you think it's genuine or do you think he's using some race baiting to get other blacks to empathize with his struggles?

What do you expect from Vince? I admit, I do admire him because I think he's a great businessman. In fact, I was thinking of naming my second born's middle name after him (well, actually because of three Vince's Vince McMahon, Frank Vincent Zappa and my cousin Vince, but I digress.) But yeah, I noticed how most of "Hollywood" more or less mocked pro wrestling, but I noticed all of these "celebs" coming out and starting to dick ride. But, I will give Snoop credit, he seems like a true fan. I mean, why else would have Santino put him over at Wrestlemania last year? Most wrestlers never do that with a celeb appearance. Remember the "Steve-O Chris Pontius/Umaga fiasco?"

But okay, I'm about compromise, what would you do to make "Sports Entertainment" into Pro Wrestling again?

Mlle d. Sade said:

Colt- yeah, can't believe his brush with antisemitism, that was terrible. He doesn't want to talk about it. Save for a shoot.
That was really fucked up, I still can't believe people still use that word, it's really mind blowing. Sports Entertainment vs. Hollywood is SO unrealistic. Great, now WWE is sad and deluded.

But antisemitism, for real? I just couldn't believe that shit when I heard about it.

[Mlle d. Sade]

Pro wrestling is dead. WWE made sure "wrasslin" would never draw big numbers again and is seen as the lesser option.

Playing up to black folks? No matter what separatists says it is an common issue. People intentionally brought up the fact that he and Raven were Jewish when trying to discredit ECW angles.
They put over Snoop because he's a symbol of their main fan base- porn watching 18-46 year olds. Now, that's pathetic. That's why WWE is a joke to Hollywood.


Youtube pick: Aja Kong vs. Megumi Kudo 02/1987. Aja wrestled under her real name, Erika Shishedo and Megumi Kudo wrestled there for a short while before being booted out for not being "good enough". Standards were high in AJW at the time and if you couldn't straight up wrestle like a pro right out of the gate your days were numbered. Crane Yuu is also the referee in this match seeing as she was on her way or in retirement as a wrestler.

The next time these two would meet in AJW would be more than 10 years later for the world title.

Straight up wrasslin', no glitz, no glamour just hold and moves and holds and physical storytelling. How boring.



Ghettopunkrocker said:

Yeah, Paul Heyman did a blog about anti-antisemitism in wrestling. Okay, Paul is a known manipulator but in this article here did you notice Paul E. Heyman more or less playing up to black folks? Do you think it's genuine or do you think he's using some race baiting to get other blacks to empathize with his struggles?

What do you expect from Vince? I admit, I do admire him because I think he's a great businessman. In fact, I was thinking of naming my second born's middle name after him (well, actually because of three Vince's Vince McMahon, Frank Vincent Zappa and my cousin Vince, but I digress.) But yeah, I noticed how most of "Hollywood" more or less mocked pro wrestling, but I noticed all of these "celebs" coming out and starting to dick ride. But, I will give Snoop credit, he seems like a true fan. I mean, why else would have Santino put him over at Wrestlemania last year? Most wrestlers never do that with a celeb appearance. Remember the "Steve-O Chris Pontius/Umaga fiasco?"

But okay, I'm about compromise, what would you do to make "Sports Entertainment" into Pro Wrestling again?

Mlle d. Sade said:

Colt- yeah, can't believe his brush with antisemitism, that was terrible. He doesn't want to talk about it. Save for a shoot.
That was really fucked up, I still can't believe people still use that word, it's really mind blowing. Sports Entertainment vs. Hollywood is SO unrealistic. Great, now WWE is sad and deluded.

But antisemitism, for real? I just couldn't believe that shit when I heard about it.

[Ghettopunkrocker]

U think the world needs another ECW?

Mlle d. Sade said:

Pro wrestling is dead. WWE made sure "wrasslin" would never draw big numbers again and is seen as the lesser option.

Playing up to black folks? No matter what separatists says it is an common issue. People intentionally brought up the fact that he and Raven were Jewish when trying to discredit ECW angles.
They put over Snoop because he's a symbol of their main fan base- porn watching 18-46 year olds. Now, that's pathetic. That's why WWE is a joke to Hollywood.


Youtube pick: Aja Kong vs. Megumi Kudo 02/1987. Aja wrestled under her real name, Erika Shishedo and Megumi Kudo wrestled there for a short while before being booted out for not being "good enough". Standards were high in AJW at the time and if you couldn't straight up wrestle like a pro right out of the gate your days were numbered. Crane Yuu is also the referee in this match seeing as she was on her way or in retirement as a wrestler.

The next time these two would meet in AJW would be more than 10 years later for the world title.

Straight up wrasslin', no glitz, no glamour just hold and moves and holds and physical storytelling. How boring.



Ghettopunkrocker said:

Yeah, Paul Heyman did a blog about anti-antisemitism in wrestling. Okay, Paul is a known manipulator but in this article here did you notice Paul E. Heyman more or less playing up to black folks? Do you think it's genuine or do you think he's using some race baiting to get other blacks to empathize with his struggles?

What do you expect from Vince? I admit, I do admire him because I think he's a great businessman. In fact, I was thinking of naming my second born's middle name after him (well, actually because of three Vince's Vince McMahon, Frank Vincent Zappa and my cousin Vince, but I digress.) But yeah, I noticed how most of "Hollywood" more or less mocked pro wrestling, but I noticed all of these "celebs" coming out and starting to dick ride. But, I will give Snoop credit, he seems like a true fan. I mean, why else would have Santino put him over at Wrestlemania last year? Most wrestlers never do that with a celeb appearance. Remember the "Steve-O Chris Pontius/Umaga fiasco?"

But okay, I'm about compromise, what would you do to make "Sports Entertainment" into Pro Wrestling again?

Mlle d. Sade said:

Colt- yeah, can't believe his brush with antisemitism, that was terrible. He doesn't want to talk about it. Save for a shoot.
That was really fucked up, I still can't believe people still use that word, it's really mind blowing. Sports Entertainment vs. Hollywood is SO unrealistic. Great, now WWE is sad and deluded.

But antisemitism, for real? I just couldn't believe that shit when I heard about it.

[Mlle d. Sade]

lol, another ECW can't be done- it's not that simple, anyway- the same stuff that was "cutting edge" is no longer cutting edge. WWE has exercised such a tight control over ideals about mainstream "wrasslin'" that no other promotion- not even ROH could even get enough fans because WWE has created a monopoly preventing anything other than what they've created getting a favorable look from enough people. Wrasslin' is just dead. Sports entertainment rules, so much so that fans get bored if there isn't enough crass nonsense.

[Ghettopunkrocker]

Wrasslin's not dead...it just smells funny. But hey, that's the beauty of these smaller feds to try to keep it pure. But honestly, I wouldn't mind seeing more cruserweight/high flying kind of matches. What do you think of Chris Hero?


Mlle d. Sade said:

lol, another ECW can't be done- it's not that simple, anyway- the same stuff that was "cutting edge" is no longer cutting edge. WWE has exercised such a tight control over ideals about mainstream "wrasslin'" that no other promotion- not even ROH could even get enough fans because WWE has created a monopoly preventing anything other than what they've created getting a favorable look from enough people. Wrasslin' is just dead. Sports entertainment rules, so much so that fans get bored if there isn't enough crass nonsense.