Do you "talk Black" enough?

[calvinchaos]

...this is a real funny topic that just now popped in my head & I realized I had never seen it come up. Have you ever had somebody give you the whole "why you don't talk Black?" speech? & not just one person in a room, everybody jumps on the bandwagon too.

When I was a kid, I lived in about 7 different States & I was spelling bee champ & a grammar whiz from school to school. After a while I said fuck it, because I got sick of people who ended up getting decent jobs anyway, rolling on the floor laughing at me for "talking proper". I wish I hadn't excelled in grammar & spelling in school in the first place, since you obviously don't need it & I didn't need the aggravation. Look who just got out of the office of President of The United States. I rest my case.

We got a gang of stupid hangups that nobody bothers to mention this one, but I don't see what's the big deal, why people act so damned childish about it. I do take advantage of the fact that people think I shoudn't know how to talk & that let's me throw the rules out the window whenever I'm lazy or in a rush. I realize that a lot of the start of "Ebonics" comes from our ancestors being taught how to speak English by porky pig ass slave owners & passing it down, but living in cities like a lot of us do, I think there must be more people than I realize who learned other dialects & have dealt with discrimination for "talkin' all proper & shit".

Basically if Simon Cowell & Pierce Brosnan could get through a convo w/ you on the first try, then you probably heard that bullshit at least once somewhere.

[Compound Egret]

Different people have given me grief about this over the years. It bothered me when I was younger, but I can laugh at it now. One of my cousins used to do an imitation of me talking that made me laugh until I cried. Random people never say anything about it, but I can hear how their slang changes as the conversation progresses. When someone goes from calling you "big dog" to "sir" in the course of a minute or so, it's obvious. I also get a lot of surprised reactions when people who have talked to me on the phone meet me in person.

[Rosenda]

Ha! Great topic, Calvin. CE, oh have I ever gotten the funny surprised look (especially in business/work) when someone I've only talked to on the phone meets me in person.

You know, Calvin, when I was a child, my father and various other educators were in the middle of this "Black English" program at LA Unified School District, also involved some schools in other states. That same issue of "speaking proper English" came up, but what they were trying to do was basically to acknowledge those old school traditional customs and patterns of speech among Black people in the U.S. at the school level, and then to teach the kids that it's also important to speak "standard" or "proper" English, especially when it comes to practical things later on like job interviews etc etc.

From my point of view as a kid, I think it was an attempt at Black educators to take the stigma of "Black English" (later termed "Ebonics") so that a kid didn't feel bad for talking the way others talked in their family, home, neighborhood, etc., and the adults would not put anyone down for this either: the idea was, acknowledge what IS and then teach what needs to be learned about "standard" English, so that it benefits Black children and young adults later in life.

It all stemmed from the belief that speaking "Black English" would hold you back later in life when you are going for a job interview, either because of the negative implications (among Black AND white people) or the possibility of not being understood clearly when it's necessary, at work at school etc.

Is it any different now? I doubt it. You gotta learn whatever skills get you to survive and move ahead in life, be it at school or on a job. If that means you don't talk slang on an interview or on an appointment, then you make an effort to just talk regular and clearly.

The other part of the problem is your homies and family members who might have made fun of you "for talking white".
Even if all you were doing was just to speak so that you know the teacher and other people know what you're saying.

How the hell is helping? Not at all. Being that my parents were in Education, especially and more deeply my Dad, for over 40 years, it was a big deal at my house growing up. My mom said it well "you can say what you want around your friends, but when you are on a job interview, you better speak proper English."

Funny thing was............my father being the big proponent of the Black English program along with other principals and teachers: he came down HARD on us at home for speaking too much Black slang. And when moving to a heavily white area when I was 9 happened and hanging out with the white kids rubbed off on my speaking White slang sometimes, my dad came down EQUALLY as hard on me about it.

In some way..........he was a LOT more upset about me speaking "white" slang. Because I'm a Black woman and ought to be proud of it. He didn't understand that I always was, even when I sounded all Surfer Girl/Valley Girl like all the other kids surrounding me at school.

To a lesser degree, I saw that same issue among the white kids I went to school with after the age of 9 when we moved to a different neighborhood. There were white teachers scolding the white kids for talking slang when it's not necessary and not being understood when it's important too.

As I've said before to you other old heads here on AP, my Pops still cracks on me once in awhile about my speech.
"You've been hanging out with your White friends today, haven't you? I can tell.'

I really don't realize all that but he certainly does. It doesn't bother me so much now, as I know the facts that I am a product of my environment, regardless if I am consciously aware of my speech at any given moment.

My cousin Cathy in Houston, who is my age, said the sweetest and funniest thing when she was here a couple years back for her nephew's graduation from USC's film school: (in regards me and my sister Alva):

"That's what I like about you and Alva. You can keep it real and properly conjugate a verb at the same time."

[Rosenda]

Hey Ca;lvin, what you said about taking advantage of the fact that people think Black folks shouldn't know how to talk?

My father has definitely done that, probably in the opposite direction. I can't tell you HOW many times in his career with LAUSD (and also in working with other govt education agencies at the state level, etc etc) throughout the years, that he has told me "that cracker was ANGRY when presented the case to the group, and did it BETTER than he did. He had the NERVE to question me and my information, because he didn't think a BLACK man could be more effective than he was.:

That kind of thing happened a LOT during the 50's through the 70's especially to him. And I totally know he got a kick out of it coming up against people like that. Frankly, we all did. I was proud that he stood up for what is right in any situation. Pops is from Texas and Texas people don't take no crap, especially not the Brothers and Sisters, you know what I mean?

I'd have to say, according to popular custom, Calvin, I don't talk "black" enough. But I gurantee you, anybody who speaks to me in person or on the phone, if they have half a brain, and aren't lazy minded, know exactly what I say no matter where I am or who I'm with. From the liquor store to the boardroom. Truly.

[willy l]

they can never come up with a good explanation to why i should talk like they do and they can never give me a definition of how it is to talk black. black people who tell you you need to talk "black" are stereotypical slave mentality types. white people who say that believe that black people dont use proper english and are idiots.

[kala]

you know what? this is totally true. haha i get told i talk "white" all the time. so has my mom. just because you dont say "what your name is" and stuff like that doesnt make you idunno. lame or white. it just makes you literate haha

[PolarVibez]

IMO, people saying someone talks White is bullshit.There is absolutely nothing wrong with talking proper English. Whenever I have kids I will definately stress that. I'm gonna go out of my way to make sure they know about their heritage and I'm gonna fill in all blanks from their history class. So they'll definately have knowledge of self and all that good stuff but being able to speak proper English is not a degradation of "Blackness" in anyway and they will know that. That being said, Ebonics is not the problem. The problem actually lies with the mentality that says we aren't good enough to talk the way "massa" talks. That mentality is one of those oppressive mindfucks heldover from our days in bondage.

Ebonics is our shit. It's just another way we take something that was forced on us an add or own twist on it or subvert it basically as a fuck you to the ones in power. What a lot of people don't realize is that the speech patterns and even some of the sentence formations in Ebonics are very African in origin. For instance in Ebonics "them" becomes "dem". Is it a lazy tongue or more attributed to the fact that "th" is not prevalent in African dialects. So early slaves just approximated what they were hearing. It's cool to speak it among ourselves and people that identify but if you're talking to someone outside of that culture or someone in the business world you should be able to adapt because they are going to "perceive" you as being uneducated even if you are far from being that.

I am in no way suggesting that if you are Black and didn't grow up around Ebonics that you have go learn it to truly be Black. I'm just saying whether you speak it or not it's arguable that we shouldn't necessarily look at it in a negative light but...if you're gonna speak English know how to speak it properly. It's not a White thing, it's the right thing.

[Tapedek]

I love this topic.

As if to say because of my skin color, the words that come out of my mouth should sound a certain way.. Anyone who thinks like that should have the shit slapped outta them.

done.

[GarageBandKings]

Calvin do you still live in Chicago?

[XiaMin]

I'm still amazed at black people who have an issue with this with me. The mockery and jokes of childhood have been replaced by mock wonder or snobbishness. whatever. It's actually something that pisses me off, usually accompanied by the 'you act white' shit from blacks and whites alike.

My bf (asian) even joked about it once...saying he was more black than me. I said sweetly, "I'm black enough to cut you, and that's all you need to know." That was the end of that.

I do like seeing the reactions of people who've only spoken to me on the phone, especially at work.

[Christopher Irving]

FUUUUUUCK EBONICS!!!! It does not work for me!!!LOL!!

But seriously,I stress using proper english because ,that was the way I was taught in school.I had a mean but sweet 6th grade teacher and if you didn't use prorper english in her class,SHE WILL MOST DEFINITELY CALL YOU OUT IN FRONT OF THE WHOLE CLASS and make you feel embarresed!!

[nkyinkyin]

oh yeah. i got so much shit for that back in the day. not so much anymore, really, although i'll still hear about my collection of accents when i'm in philly sometimes. my grandmother had us all code-shift--taught us all that we could speak however we liked on the playground, but we needed to know proper english if we wanted to do well out in the real world. so that was two slightly different accents right there. one was very formal proper english (my phone voice), and the one wasn't flat out ebonics w/slang but most of the old folks in my neighborhood had just a bit of old south flavor to their speech. you know what i mean, right? anyway, so there was that, and then i used to spend summers in new england with my aunts up there. and then i'd come back not only "speaking white" but, to their perception "speaking snobby better-than-thou white." which cracked me up, 'cause well, even the hoods in providence say "pahk the cah."

then, i was a live in nanny for an australian couple with a 3-yr old. not only did i start picking up their accent, the little one didn't understand all the american lingo, so that had me calling the trash "rubbish," among other things. so then i kept getting a lot of "....where are you FROM?" altho when i slide into that, people think i just sound british. i have friends in england, too, and they have me calling bangs "fringe" and stuff, which didn't help.

now we live with my scottish mother-in-law. every little thing is now "wee." i thought i was doing pretty well not picking up her brogue, but the other night i was drinking with her and i could hear myself and it was a bad scene. XD but as i explained to some guys that were giving me a hard time about it a few years back--it's really damn narrow to think that black people can or should only speak one way. what about the black people that aren't american?

i'll speak any which way that lets me communicate the most effectively with whomever i'm speaking to. (or which ever which way i end up speaking, 'cause sometimes accents sneak up on me like ninja.) my ever-shifting accent isn't an indication that i think i'm any better than anyone else, and definitely doesn't mean i'm a self-hater and i want to be white. i mean, WTF? it's just the way i speak. but yeah, i've confused a lot of people on the phone and stuff. it amuses me and annoys me at the same time, but that's okay, i don't mind explaining. a lot of people have to admit, it's stupid to hold to that kind of thinking.

[calvinchaos]

Haha...no matter how much time goes by it's still always the same shocked feeling that I get when I read responses on AP. Out of every web community I ever posted in, the deepest thinkers are in this community. It's too bad the AP community zine collab idea never works out...and no I ain't gonna try & do it a 3rd time :P

My personal accent is so damn mixed up, that even though it's more the inflections & pronunciation in my case when I "code switch"...nobody can ever tell where I'm from. For a while folks kept on asking if I was from Memphis, but that was cause I bumped 3-6 and Project Pat every day for a year. I picked up whoever's accent I hear the most often, like nkyinkyin said lol. I should just most somewhere where I like the regional accent, like Boston. Nah...I know one that would get on folks nerves even better...New Jersey!