Straight black women in the GAY community.

[lyfenlyn]

I have been thinking quite a bit about this lately. When I was in high school, I didn't know it then, but I was the beard for a few of the gay boys in school. One gorgeous black boy that transferred in that I immediately set my sights for confided in me that he was gay and he needed me to cover for him. I didn't think anything of it and relished the idea of walking around school holding hands and getting pecks from him before I went to class.

Fast forward into Adulthood and with being a creative and well dressed person, being black automatically gave you ‘diva’ status in the club scene. I’d find myself around the funniest most creative wild bunch of kids, but 90% of the cuties would be gay. Over the years my deepest bonds would be with gay men, and to this day my family is my brethren.

HOWEVER, there is a part of me that feels like I don’t know how to live ‘straight’ girl life, because I find it a little demeaning, sexist and patriarchal. Whenever I’d be around straight men I’d find myself sometimes literally fighting them off. My boyfriends were more like overgrown children than men. With gay men I could relax and get affection without it turning into something sexual. I could be a sexual being, wear sexy outfits without being a target. I got to express myself to the fullest with no recourse. Well, none rather than falling into the stereotype anyway.

I got to a point in my life when I felt I needed distance from ‘gay’ life. I’m not gay, though I have been accused of having lesbian politics. One girl informed me ‘politically you are a lesbian.’ Oh ok, I think? Anyhoo. When I moved I made it a conscious effort to not go back to the gay clubs and scene, and I am bored senseless. I started to wonder if I had spent less time hanging where I didn’t technically belong, if I would have had more romantic adult relationships with men? Marriage and kids isn't my objective in life, however having a life partner would be ideal. I just didn’t want to spend the rest of my life as this a-sexual cartoon for gay men to scream 'guuurrrllfriend' to from time to time. A side note to their lives as opposed to say a central point in a straight relationship.

Has anyone else had this struggle?

[lyfenlyn]

brotherkomrade said:

LesYpersound said:

I can relate...

i don't and can't or won't exist in that other mainstream straight dating scene where traditional gender roles rule.

being a misogynist homophobic alpha male that can only interact w/ women on a sexual level is definitely and always has been a deal breaker for relationships... (since i was a kid i understood i wasn't 100% straight/gender role dedicated so the only guys i had crushes on were comfortable w/ themselves and open minded ppl).

.

This is the reason why I love me some LesYpersound.

The OP has given us something honest here. Strangely, I can almost relate in that although I'm a straight, married man, I prefer hanging with LGBT people rather than straight men because I'd rather not be bored with conversations on sports, shoes, and titties. Sports are tolerated by me and I like breasts (I'm more of an face, ass, shoulders, hips, and thighs kinda guy), but my problem is the mask that other straight men have to put on around each other or around women; hence the feeling that they need to 'act' on grabbing and groping instead of talking to a woman.

As I said, great post.

Oh and don't be a woman who wants to HAVE a conversation---it's the kiss of death. Men turn off and get all glassy eyed even if you aren't talking about shoes. I try and stick to music and film mostly. But wanting to have more than a sexual interaction with men is a chore. Sometimes it's just easier to avoid them.

[Rosenda]

I know what you mean, Lynfenlyn. But like California African, I'm older now, and I ain't never had a problem with the fact I had a lot of fun in my life (and occasionally still do) with gay friends. I never thought of it as a problem or a stigma.

My boyfriend is straight and he said the same thing to me a long time ago about having better and more interesting conversations with some gay men and women in his lifetime than with some straight people who had a bad attitude.

Lyfen, you have to live the life YOU want to. The life that makes YOU happy overall. Over time that changes, too, so be flexible with yourself about that and don't pay no mind to the patterns of living that other women live, if you find any of it demeaning or limiting.

People are part of life, good people and bad people. And you say you want a life partner, well someday you will if you keep true to yourself and what makes you happy in every respect and interest you have. Hopefully you will somehow meet a guy who appreciates you as you are and the friends you have and the things you like to do socially and the places you like to go.

I've been told years ago that I got strange beliefs and ideals compared to other sisters out there, and especially now in my age group. So what, I don't care about that. This is me and this is who I am. I'm gonna enjoy the hell out of my life, even now when things are rough with working and personal life and family stuff too. I can't waste time worrying about what others think of me and what assumptions they make about me.

Sure that means that there are a lot of people who don't know me who will make completely incorrect assumptions about me, and that includes men. But not everybody. You learn the appreciate the people who really DO "get" you. You know what I mean, Lyfenlyn?

And if it still bothers you as you say be seen as an "a-sexual cartoon for gay men to scream 'gurrrllfiend' to", make a point to go other places than you normally hang out, just for a change of scenery, where you don't see the same people all the time. Believe me, I know that feeling of being in kind of a rut as far as being around the same crowd of people.

It helps me to sometimes just physically go explore someplace, even if just for one day, that I normally don't go to, alone by myself. People watching in odd places helps me a lot when I need it.

[lyfenlyn]

Rosenda said:

I know what you mean, Lynfenlyn. But like California African, I'm older now, and I ain't never had a problem with the fact I had a lot of fun in my life (and occasionally still do) with gay friends. I never thought of it as a problem or a stigma.

My boyfriend is straight and he said the same thing to me a long time ago about having better and more interesting conversations with some gay men and women in his lifetime than with some straight people who had a bad attitude.

Lyfen, you have to live the life YOU want to. The life that makes YOU happy overall. Over time that changes, too, so be flexible with yourself about that and don't pay no mind to the patterns of living that other women live, if you find any of it demeaning or limiting.

People are part of life, good people and bad people. And you say you want a life partner, well someday you will if you keep true to yourself and what makes you happy in every respect and interest you have. Hopefully you will somehow meet a guy who appreciates you as you are and the friends you have and the things you like to do socially and the places you like to go.

I've been told years ago that I got strange beliefs and ideals compared to other sisters out there, and especially now in my age group. So what, I don't care about that. This is me and this is who I am. I'm gonna enjoy the hell out of my life, even now when things are rough with working and personal life and family stuff too. I can't waste time worrying about what others think of me and what assumptions they make about me.

Sure that means that there are a lot of people who don't know me who will make completely incorrect assumptions about me, and that includes men. But not everybody. You learn the appreciate the people who really DO "get" you. You know what I mean, Lyfenlyn?

And if it still bothers you as you say be seen as an "a-sexual cartoon for gay men to scream 'gurrrllfiend' to", make a point to go other places than you normally hang out, just for a change of scenery, where you don't see the same people all the time. Believe me, I know that feeling of being in kind of a rut as far as being around the same crowd of people.

It helps me to sometimes just physically go explore someplace, even if just for one day, that I normally don't go to, alone by myself. People watching in odd places helps me a lot when I need it.

There is a polarization that happens, has happened at times where I meet a straight guy and he's completely homophobic. Mostly because of heresay, or that is what he was taught. I tell him I have gay friends and he's adamant, he doesn't care, keep them away from him. Then slowly come the digs and jabs about me spending time with them. Then full on arguements. I bring up 'They were here before you were, that's my ride or die crew.' and of course the OBVIOUS happens, boyfriends has to point out that they can't 'give ' me what he can. Like that is enough to justify being hateful. Dick isn't enough to hang all your happiness on, especially if said dick isn't providing for all of your needs. I keep running across this 'type' of straight guy. Ubermacho, sheltered type, that only appeals to me on one of 5 cylinders. Not that it has been my goal to intergrate into the super duper straight- linear living (school, degree, work, marriage, house, kids...) crowd, but like I said I wanna meet that you and me till the end dude. I know he's got to be the tolerant type and no WEED SMOKERS! Drunks need not apply either. That's been a huge burden for me, cause it seems every guy I meet who isn't already in a relationship is either a weed smoker or a drunk. Damn creative types.

[Rosenda]

I know what you mean. When I was with my former spouse who was a creative type, I didn't like to think that all creative type guys had problems perhaps with basic survival and being high or stoned but he was a severe alcoholic, which affected all his brilliance and talents in life, as well as my feelings for him over time. I think when you like someone super creative, just like anyone else, you have to decide if that if there are some things about their life and personality that you don't like or find bad or offensive, is the good times with them worth the bad times?

And if the answer is no, then you have to step. It's that questions of what one needs and wants, and maybe both are not currently found in one person in your life, but a combination of friends and loved ones.

This kind of also speaks to the balance of practical versus ideal what you want. He might be your soul mate in so many ways, but if there's something really wrong with how he lives his life or personality that causes you great pain, it can wreck everything.

Remember your other thread about "settling"? This might relate to that also, in terms of my own life too.

This is not the case for all women and men out there. Some are able to meet up with the right men/women that blend right with all parts of their life and some are not, or maybe just not now in their life.

I know that's a lot of read and think about, Lyfenlyn, but I want you to know others out here in the world have these same issues and problems.

Grrrrl, I KNOW what you mean about ubermacho type of guy. In general, I am usually able to get along with most folks, I try to appreciate the good aspects of every person. But not too long ago, I had a big issue (and it's still there in a way) with the spouse of a good friend.

He said some VERY ignorant rude mean and nasty homophobic shit around a bunch of us, at a family gathering. No one said anything and as it was related to her wedding I did not either, other than quietly telling him on the side "your comments are more annoying to me than anything those people over there that you are cracking bad on are doing". Everyone else smiled sort of strainedly and did the forced laugh or grin and let it go. He thought what he'd said was funny as hell and went on and on about it.

I was fucking pissed off as hell but in deference to my very good friend, I did not call out her man on his shit.
Also, there is a part of me that thinks she must be okay with it, too. And there is a big part of me that is happy that in every other way, he is VERY good to her and treats her wonderful, and is the man she needs in her life.

See what I mean? Anyway.........it is truly awful to be around guys like that, it's easier if they are all around jackasses cause one don't like them anyway, but when they have a few good qualities and then BOOM something truly ignorant flies out they mouth, it's painful.

Actually I feel better talking about this too. I know someday me and my friend have to have a heart to heart talk about her man, and I don't want to end our friendship over it or disrespect what is good in her life. But damn his homophobia pissed me off and I am straight. It seriously pissed me off to hear him besmirching a couple of lesbian sisters on their special day (it was one of those group meetings that wedding planners have at hotels, a luncheon and then presentation about the checklist of what gets done for big weddings, we went to support my friend and her man, because we were all in their wedding party then). I hope I can someday tell her how I feel, and get it out of my system because it kind of puts a strain on our friendship when I'm around him.

[lyfenlyn]

Rosenda said:

I know what you mean. When I was with my former spouse who was a creative type, I didn't like to think that all creative type guys had problems perhaps with basic survival and being high or stoned but he was a severe alcoholic, which affected all his brilliance and talents in life, as well as my feelings for him over time. I think when you like someone super creative, just like anyone else, you have to decide if that if there are some things about their life and personality that you don't like or find bad or offensive, is the good times with them worth the bad times?

And if the answer is no, then you have to step. It's that questions of what one needs and wants, and maybe both are not currently found in one person in your life, but a combination of friends and loved ones.

This kind of also speaks to the balance of practical versus ideal what you want. He might be your soul mate in so many ways, but if there's something really wrong with how he lives his life or personality that causes you great pain, it can wreck everything.

Remember your other thread about "settling"? This might relate to that also, in terms of my own life too.

This is not the case for all women and men out there. Some are able to meet up with the right men/women that blend right with all parts of their life and some are not, or maybe just not now in their life.

I know that's a lot of read and think about, Lyfenlyn, but I want you to know others out here in the world have these same issues and problems.

Grrrrl, I KNOW what you mean about ubermacho type of guy. In general, I am usually able to get along with most folks, I try to appreciate the good aspects of every person. But not too long ago, I had a big issue (and it's still there in a way) with the spouse of a good friend.

He said some VERY ignorant rude mean and nasty homophobic shit around a bunch of us, at a family gathering. No one said anything and as it was related to her wedding I did not either, other than quietly telling him on the side "your comments are more annoying to me than anything those people over there that you are cracking bad on are doing". Everyone else smiled sort of strainedly and did the forced laugh or grin and let it go. He thought what he'd said was funny as hell and went on and on about it.

I was fucking pissed off as hell but in deference to my very good friend, I did not call out her man on his shit.
Also, there is a part of me that thinks she must be okay with it, too. And there is a big part of me that is happy that in every other way, he is VERY good to her and treats her wonderful, and is the man she needs in her life.

See what I mean? Anyway.........it is truly awful to be around guys like that, it's easier if they are all around jackasses cause one don't like them anyway, but when they have a few good qualities and then BOOM something truly ignorant flies out they mouth, it's painful.

Actually I feel better talking about this too. I know someday me and my friend have to have a heart to heart talk about her man, and I don't want to end our friendship over it or disrespect what is good in her life. But damn his homophobia pissed me off and I am straight. It seriously pissed me off to hear him besmirching a couple of lesbian sisters on their special day (it was one of those group meetings that wedding planners have at hotels, a luncheon and then presentation about the checklist of what gets done for big weddings, we went to support my friend and her man, because we were all in their wedding party then). I hope I can someday tell her how I feel, and get it out of my system because it kind of puts a strain on our friendship when I'm around him.

That's been my back and forth, that happy medium. Like dude said in another thread 'opposites attract but similarities are forever.' I have yet to date a man that was similar to me. Made me wonder if in every relationship there has to be and A and a B? Like two A's can't go together or something. Which doesn't quite make sense to me cause you see those super compatible couples together all the time.

I have the same aversion to the ubermacho guys, I want to fight them. I just don't have the personality to sit and just say 'oh well that's just his opinion, at least I have a man.' FUCK THAT! I'm not going to be with someone that is hateful and bigotted, period. Even if you are a straight guy and you and with the whole gay thing, at least RESPECT their humanity and treat them how you would want to be treated instead of thinking their sexuality gives you a free pass to say and do and act any way you want toward them. A man that can't proccess that concept is a man I do not need.

I mentioned that my biggest problem is finding one that is clean and sober and semi healthy. I can't compromise on drugs. If I found out the Rock smoked weed, he'd be out the door too. I know there are cute guys on here that do, and oh well. We can be cool. Just not date. (just to clear that up) He doesn't have to be my every damn thing, just cover the basics at least. Is that too much to ask?

[MER]

(Answering post question)
I'm not so much in the community. Majority of my friends are gay however. Ever since H.S. I've have friends who were gay.

I'm not struggling or anything. I never gave that possibility much thought.

[Jes Yael]

i mean were you ever attracted to any of them? are they like affeminate gay guys? cuz you may just need a beta-male who would allow you to "wear the pants" ...or skinny jeans (whichever)

i have a similar problem, but the inverse almost. I'm straight, i know that now. (trial/error) but for some reason i'm much more comfortable with lesbians, more often dominate ones. i think they match my inner tomboy or something. I just cant talk about shoes and that bitch and so-n-so's baby all the time, I'm into different shit and i just hate girl politics and girl tendecies. all the gossiping and faux-compliments and man-plotting! makes me sick. me n lesbians have almost everything in common except the love of pussy, but i dont mind hearing about it. Lesbian advice has improved my sex life tremendously. vagina-experts. .....i just run into the problem of boyfriends thinkin i'm secretly gay, and my lesbian friends thinkin im ripe for conversion. whatdoyoo do wen boys are too macho and girls are too girly?

[lyfenlyn]

Jes Yael said:

i mean were you ever attracted to any of them? are they like affeminate gay guys? cuz you may just need a beta-male who would allow you to "wear the pants" ...or skinny jeans (whichever)

i have a similar problem, but the inverse almost. I'm straight, i know that now. (trial/error) but for some reason i'm much more comfortable with lesbians, more often dominate ones. i think they match my inner tomboy or something. I just cant talk about shoes and that bitch and so-n-so's baby all the time, I'm into different shit and i just hate girl politics and girl tendecies. all the gossiping and faux-compliments and man-plotting! makes me sick. me n lesbians have almost everything in common except the love of pussy, but i dont mind hearing about it. Lesbian advice has improved my sex life tremendously. vagina-experts. .....i just run into the problem of boyfriends thinkin i'm secretly gay, and my lesbian friends thinkin im ripe for conversion. whatdoyoo do wen boys are too macho and girls are too girly?

Actually the funny part is that all of the gay guys I gravitated toward were very manly, and hated swishy types. I don't mind a guy who is a little flamby. I mean my first hard crush was on PRINCE for chrissakes. He's one of the hottest men in the world. David Bowie types are hot too. But not the kind where I have to look at them sideways and wonder if they can go to work when the time comes. I have an equally agressive and girly nature. I am not more one than the other tho life situations may call more for the latter than the former. In relationships I need to have both. Part yes man part big daddy. It aint easy to find in one man. The ones I have run across that have the intellect and charm to carry it off, are usually emotional retards at the end of the day which I don't have the patience for. Ahhh well. I might need a stable afterall.

[x]

i think this thread is pretty kick ass. I was just talking to someone the other day about my lack of straight friends. It's nice to know i'm not the alone. I think it just comes with the territory of being in an alt scene. idk, i just thought i'd drop a line.

[Trula]

I am a little confused...how does not dating men/living a straight life stop you from being affected by patriarchy?

[Mlle d. Sade]

Trula said:

I am a little confused...how does not dating men/living a straight life stop you from being affected by patriarchy?

you don't have to deal with it in close quarters. You don't have to live with the stress of a male unconsciously tripping off that patriarchy normalcy juice. It's a great escape.

[Rosenda]

Lesy said:

I think men get stuck in the mirrored area as we do, and like we can't handle the straight mysog-male relationships, they can't handle the straight-be-a-man thing on their end. I agree with the abstraction of feeling as well as relationships. Too many people get caught up in this linear way of thinking. Reminds me of that song by the Godfathers..how did it go 'Born, live, school, work, die?' or something like that? Love isn't that simple connect the dots thing. I can be into you, and not be in love with you, and definately not wanting to marry you, but feel intensely about you. Over and over till I can't stand it. Passion doesn't always have to equal perminance. Struggling with that with every man you meet gets old.



I hear you, I know men get caught in the mirrored area (excellent way to say that) just as women do.
I often wonder, do any of us struggle with how we live our lives and dating and sexual habits, more because of outside attitudes of other people (like family, friends) or because we still can't break away from that totally and say "fuck it, i'm gonna do what i want?" and truly be happy with that?


Mlle said:

I consider it floating due to incompatible male mates. I've talked about it most men are sexist/homophobic in some way but the rare genderfucking gems are hard to find.
I
have no idea how to live like a "straight" girl and have no desire to find out. I will not be subjected to patriarchy if I can help it and politically, I should have a girlfriend and make organic soap.


One's whole entire life and your habits and needs and wants and desires can and will shift over time, and it's also gonna shift and change when your surrounding environment and more importantly THE PEOPLE AROUND YOU change.

Like I remember the only kind of guys I was exposed to up to my late twenties, when I physically moved to another neighborhood and around different people, it TOTALLY changed more than I thought it would. Yes in good and bad way, but I learned and growed from it regardless. It's hard to know that fact until it happens.

Damn, when I think about the type of guys (be they white, black, asian, latino ) I only knew were around up until that time......damn, it was a small small sector of a certain mentality, and I can say the same goes for the females. And this is outside of my family group, ya know?

Mlle and Lesy goddamn it is a stone cold mind blowing trip when that kind of thing happens in your life. Chances are it already has to a certain degree, but when some big changes of where you live/work/learn happen, it can either give you hope of finding the girls/guys you'd really want to be around with or it can show what you DEFINITELY ain't about.